Comments on: North vs. South, Black and White, Cream and Sugar, Heads or Tails http://www.webword.com/wp/2005/04/15/north-vs-south-black-and-white-cream-and-sugar-heads-or-tails/ The usability blog of John S. Rhodes Sat, 11 Oct 2008 02:24:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.3 by: Anonymous http://www.webword.com/wp/2005/04/15/north-vs-south-black-and-white-cream-and-sugar-heads-or-tails/#comment-10604 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.webword.com/wp/2005/04/15/north-vs-south-black-and-white-cream-and-sugar-heads-or-tails/#comment-10604 Aside from words with a clear order ("first and second") I <i>suspect</i> if you ask people to order any two unrelated words, or even two made-up words, trends will often emerge that are greater than the expected deviation of a coin flip.<br /> <br /> Maybe new word orders are influenced by the "ghosts" of nearby words and their meanings and relationships? Or maybe you can break it down to the individual syllables, like hard sounds in the beginning and soft sounds at the end?<br /> <br /> Hmmm... Sven & Larry -or- Larry & Sven... :-)<br /> <br /> -Sean Aside from words with a clear order (”first and second”) I suspect if you ask people to order any two unrelated words, or even two made-up words, trends will often emerge that are greater than the expected deviation of a coin flip.

Maybe new word orders are influenced by the “ghosts” of nearby words and their meanings and relationships? Or maybe you can break it down to the individual syllables, like hard sounds in the beginning and soft sounds at the end?

Hmmm… Sven & Larry -or- Larry & Sven… :-)

-Sean

]]> by: Anonymous http://www.webword.com/wp/2005/04/15/north-vs-south-black-and-white-cream-and-sugar-heads-or-tails/#comment-10605 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.webword.com/wp/2005/04/15/north-vs-south-black-and-white-cream-and-sugar-heads-or-tails/#comment-10605 As you stated, "Structure. Format. Ordering." <br /> <br /> The reason they work in the way we are accustomed to them is that they are alphabetical. In every instance - including the Bread and Butter example, the words are in sequential order as they appear in the alphabet. Our brains are always trying to organize information in ways that make sense to us. We learn the correct order of things that use letters at a very early age. It only stands to reason that we are going to organize letters in that same order. As you stated, “Structure. Format. Ordering.”

The reason they work in the way we are accustomed to them is that they are alphabetical. In every instance - including the Bread and Butter example, the words are in sequential order as they appear in the alphabet. Our brains are always trying to organize information in ways that make sense to us. We learn the correct order of things that use letters at a very early age. It only stands to reason that we are going to organize letters in that same order.

]]> by: Anonymous http://www.webword.com/wp/2005/04/15/north-vs-south-black-and-white-cream-and-sugar-heads-or-tails/#comment-10606 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.webword.com/wp/2005/04/15/north-vs-south-black-and-white-cream-and-sugar-heads-or-tails/#comment-10606 I suspect that phrases where one word is monosyllabic and the other has two syllables, like "Cream and Sugar" or "Bread and Butter," have to do with meter, at least where both words are equally important. I don't know how best to mark this up in text, but I'll try:<br /> <br /> Cream and Sugar sounds like this:<br /> <b>DAH</b> da <b>DAH</b> da<br /> <br /> Sugar and Cream sounds like this:<br /> <b>DAH</b> da da <b>DAH</b><br /> <br /> The first feels more natural to say.<br /> <br /> Then there's emphasis. "Coffee and cream" violates the meter, but places the emphasis on the more important item: the coffee. "Bread and butter" fits this pattern also. Similarly, with "Heads or tails," there's a sense that things start at the head and move toward the tail.<br /> <br /> I'm not sure how to explain "black and white" or "North vs. South," though. Something else must have fixed those in order. I suspect that phrases where one word is monosyllabic and the other has two syllables, like “Cream and Sugar” or “Bread and Butter,” have to do with meter, at least where both words are equally important. I don’t know how best to mark this up in text, but I’ll try:

Cream and Sugar sounds like this:
DAH da DAH da

Sugar and Cream sounds like this:
DAH da da DAH

The first feels more natural to say.

Then there’s emphasis. “Coffee and cream” violates the meter, but places the emphasis on the more important item: the coffee. “Bread and butter” fits this pattern also. Similarly, with “Heads or tails,” there’s a sense that things start at the head and move toward the tail.

I’m not sure how to explain “black and white” or “North vs. South,” though. Something else must have fixed those in order.

]]> by: Anonymous http://www.webword.com/wp/2005/04/15/north-vs-south-black-and-white-cream-and-sugar-heads-or-tails/#comment-10607 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.webword.com/wp/2005/04/15/north-vs-south-black-and-white-cream-and-sugar-heads-or-tails/#comment-10607 <blockquote>Or maybe you can break it down to the individual syllables, like hard sounds in the beginning and soft sounds at the end?</blockquote> <p>Hmm, you may have something there. Ben &#38; Jerry's vs. Bartles &#38; James.</p>

Or maybe you can break it down to the individual syllables, like hard sounds in the beginning and soft sounds at the end?

Hmm, you may have something there. Ben & Jerry’s vs. Bartles & James.

]]> by: Anonymous http://www.webword.com/wp/2005/04/15/north-vs-south-black-and-white-cream-and-sugar-heads-or-tails/#comment-10608 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.webword.com/wp/2005/04/15/north-vs-south-black-and-white-cream-and-sugar-heads-or-tails/#comment-10608 Up and down - there goes the alphabetical theory, although it is for the most part remarkable in its consistency. Another theory - Steven Pinker, in "The Language Instinct", says that the order is always highest-frontest vowel (in the vowel space) first and lowest-backest vowel second, wrt the first vowel in each word. I've never verified this.<br /> <br /> Paddy Up and down - there goes the alphabetical theory, although it is for the most part remarkable in its consistency. Another theory - Steven Pinker, in “The Language Instinct”, says that the order is always highest-frontest vowel (in the vowel space) first and lowest-backest vowel second, wrt the first vowel in each word. I’ve never verified this.

Paddy

]]> by: John http://www.webword.com/wp/2005/04/15/north-vs-south-black-and-white-cream-and-sugar-heads-or-tails/#comment-10609 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.webword.com/wp/2005/04/15/north-vs-south-black-and-white-cream-and-sugar-heads-or-tails/#comment-10609 Pinker rocks. I've read several of his research papers, and a book. However, I did not read "The Language Instinct". I'll have to pick it up.<br /> <br /> Speaking of books, Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics" is great. I'm reading a few others. More on those in a few weeks.<br /> <br /> - John Pinker rocks. I’ve read several of his research papers, and a book. However, I did not read “The Language Instinct”. I’ll have to pick it up.

Speaking of books, Scott McCloud’s “Understanding Comics” is great. I’m reading a few others. More on those in a few weeks.

- John

]]> by: Anonymous http://www.webword.com/wp/2005/04/15/north-vs-south-black-and-white-cream-and-sugar-heads-or-tails/#comment-10610 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.webword.com/wp/2005/04/15/north-vs-south-black-and-white-cream-and-sugar-heads-or-tails/#comment-10610 Talking of books that are not usability/design books but that are relevant to what we do, I've just started "Mind Hacks" by Tom Stafford and Matt Web. It looks promising.<br /> <br /> Paddy Talking of books that are not usability/design books but that are relevant to what we do, I’ve just started “Mind Hacks” by Tom Stafford and Matt Web. It looks promising.

Paddy

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